Episode 39-
Dominik Lysek
Chasing Innovation with Dominik Lysek
This week’s guest is Dominik Lysek, an entrepreneur with over 15 years of impactful contributions to the dental and pharmaceutical industries. He is the CEO of PharmaTrail, a Swiss company specializing in blockchain-based software solutions for capturing and managing clinical trial data. Dominik also serves on the board of several companies, including the dental science firm Vvadis and the RNA-based therapeutics organization Altamira Therapeutics.
In 2010, Dominik founded Credentis, a company that pioneered groundbreaking enamel restoration technology. This marked the beginning of his journey in innovation and entrepreneurial success.
Please be advised that this episode includes a discussion of cancer mortality.
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Resources
Follow your curiosity, connect, and join our ever-growing community of extraordinary minds.
The Futuri Foundation (The Future Foundation) Website
The Mentor’s Guide Sample Chapter
CancerCare's Cancer Grief Resource
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What's In This Episode
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Dominik's entrepreneurial journey.
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The relationship between mentor and mentee.
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Why overnight success takes years.
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How Dominik’s wife supported him.
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Transcript
Dominik Lysek:
I truly like new things. I like new ideas. I like people that think differently. It should be purposeful. What I could never do is doing another me-too product, and today I'm in the lucky position that I can really choose what I want to do with my life. But that is also what drove me throughout, I think all of my career.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
On Contrary to Ordinary, we explore the motivations lives and characters of innovators who see limitless potential around them. Through these conversations, we hope to provide insight into how you can emulate the mindset of these extraordinary people in your own life and work. My name is Dr. Kim Kutsch and I spent over 20 years in dentistry before creating CariFree over 20 years ago. We offer a wide range of dental products to the industry and the public to promote the health and wellness of people suffering from the disease of dental caries. This week I'm speaking with an entrepreneur who has made significant contributions to the dental and pharmaceutical industries over the last 15 years. Dominik Lysek is the CEO of PharmaTrail, a Swiss company that develops blockchain-based software solutions for capturing and managing clinical trial data. He also serves on the board of several companies, including the dental science firm, vVARDIS, and the RNA-based therapeutics organization, Altamira Therapeutics.
I remember watching Dominik talk about his first company Credentis in the early 2010s in a packed conference room. I was blown away by his innovative ideas and was deeply impressed with his skills as a speaker. It's been inspiring to witness his meteoric rise and I can't wait to see where he's going in the future. Before we begin our conversation, I want to let you know that we will be discussing the recent and tragic loss of Dominik's wife, Regula. This episode is dedicated to her and her memory. With that said, let's start from the beginning.
Dominik Lysek:
So my first job out of uni or after my PhD was for a company called Geistlich, which does, for those of you who don't know, they do bone substitute materials for dental implantology or pedontology. I learned how to do clinical research there, meaning that I ran trials. I was a trial manager. Geistlich has a foundation called Osteology that gives out research grants. And the day that probably changed my life is Jennifer Kirkham, a professor from Leeds came to Geistlich and she was showing some early data for enamel regeneration. So practically those self-assembling peptides being a replacement for the enamel matrix. And I was sitting there in this room perhaps with 10 other people, actually, Peter Geistlich, who is the, or was the patron of the company, he was sitting next to me and I told him, "Look, this is the best thing since sliced bread." I mean, I'm just absolutely-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Gobsmacked?
Dominik Lysek:
Absolutely. And the idea didn't leave me. It stayed in my mind for about two years until I started writing a business plan around that. And then I went up to Leeds to meet with Jen, ask her, "Look what has happened to that technology." I knew they had a patent. And she said, "Nothing really, because not all the universities are good with selling off their innovations, et cetera, or licensing them out." So I asked her, "Well, would you mind licensing it to me? I'm planning to build up a company around this." And she was kind of, "Sure." I founded the company in 2010 and me and my wife said, "Look, we're going to give ourselves a year to finance this," because obviously I needed investors. I didn't have the money to do this. So we had one year. We found investors and we really became active in 2011 with a clear idea of building a system or developing a system for enamel regeneration.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I think it's probably worthwhile to just for a second talk about, because a lot of our listeners aren't in the dental profession, and when enamel starts to demineralize in the early stages of a cavity forming, there was a protein matrix, kind of a scaffolding that the enamel mineral developed around as your enamel first formed. And you lose that protein as a cavity starts to form in the surface of the enamel. And so what Dominik's talking about here, these self-assembling peptides are small protein segments that actually then connect and create a new scaffolding, which then attracts the calcium and phosphate minerals to create a new repaired enamel.
It's a real novel approach to repairing. In fact, it's a new and novel approach to repairing enamel and it's quite effective, and the research on that is substantial. So what was that experience like? And you did a startup. Only one out of 10 startup companies survived the first year, only one out of 10 of those that survived to year number 10. And when you get into year 20 or so, the data is like, I mean the odds are so far against you achieving success. What was that experience like going through that for you? And this was your first startup.
Dominik Lysek:
Yes, yes. So first of all, the experience were the 10 best years of my life, or at least from a professional point of view, because simply me and my business partner, Michael, was the CTO of Credentis throughout all the years. You have a lot of freedom if you do a startup, a lot more than if you're somewhere in the corporate world, et cetera, you also have more pressure because there are investors that want to see some kind of a return at one point. And you want that as well. I mean, after all, you're trying to achieve success.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And you have more risks.
Dominik Lysek:
Yes. I have to say that we've had very good investors, a very good board that helped us to always also look at that we as, I'm a father as well, the family doesn't need to suffer only because I decided, or with the support of my wife, decided to do that startup. But nevertheless, there were a million up and downs. We actually, when we developed it, and I think that was really where the strength was. As I told you before, we started in 2011, in the middle of 2012, we actually had CE labels, which is the European market approval.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right. The equivalent of our FDA marketing clearance. Right.
Dominik Lysek:
Exactly. So we thought a year and a half, that was fantastic because there we just executed a project plan and then we knew, all right, we're going to have to do some clinicals because we didn't have much evidence at that point. We just could have shown that it is safe. We had some early data from that study in Leeds that I mentioned before, and we really didn't have much. I think one of the first mistakes we've done was we went too fast in trying to sell the product because actually we had too little data to be really selling it. We should have concentrated on running the trials, running them more efficiently and actually ignoring any type of marketing and sales. But obviously there is a pressure because in the end, when is it a success? It's not when you have developed it. And we have market approval, it's if the market actually adopts the product.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Correct.
Dominik Lysek:
We started off as a one product company realizing that we really sitting on the technology that can be used also in oral care products, mouthwash, toothpaste, et cetera. So we developed a whole bunch of products on the side, but we were never very good at selling. Also, because as a small company, it's really difficult to get that market awareness, and especially Europe, I think a little bit less so here in the US, but in Europe, the dental market is rather conservative.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And I think Dominik doing a startup, it always seems like there's a shortage of capital, both financial and human capital, human resources to be able to accomplish all of that. It's amazing when I stop and I'm listening to you and I'm thinking like you created all these products and it's like that takes a tremendous amount of time and resources. And having the human resources to go and market that and sell it also, right?
Dominik Lysek:
Exactly. Because I think in a dental startup, you need to go with some kind of business partners almost, unless you really raise an enormous amount of capital, because how are you going to get the word out without the human resources, the people that really go from practice to practice, from show to show, et cetera. And that is difficult. So very early on, I would say one of my other mentors, Gerard Moufflet, he was a board member for a very long time at Credentis, and when he came on the board, one of the first things he said was, "Look, we need to create a showcase in order to become attractive for partners to then pick up the technology or partner with us on the technology." So that was actually after about, I would say, about 2014. What we constantly tried to do, trying to find the right partner that can take this technology, take the product, and actually bring it out to the market and make it a true success, which is now happening 13 years on.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
13 years later, you're an overnight success.
Dominik Lysek:
Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Something like that. Right. And people don't see the 13 years of hard work that went behind that. I want to go back for just a second. Would you describe him or your other mentors as extraordinary people?
Dominik Lysek:
Oh, absolutely. First of all that yes, absolutely. I think mentors are somebody who make me a better person in whatever way. Obviously we're working with together and as somebody that I think we both benefit from the interaction. I don't think mentoring is a one-sided thing, or at least not on the long term. I can say that all the people that I would regard my mentors have become very good friends. I mentioned Jen, Gerard for sure as well. My wife, who without her I could have never done that. And all that kind of made me advance, because the startup world, it's hard. There is times when you don't know what to do, you're out of money, you're trying to find new ways. And if you don't have those people that support you, that help you, I don't think anybody can make it on their own.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I really love your comment that it's not a one-way relationship, right? Because I think of mentoring up and mentoring down. I've had a lot of incredible mentors in my life that I am so grateful for that I literally wouldn't be here right at this moment where I'm at, but for their help. And as I mentor people, I get so much out of it being able to help somebody else and share my wisdom and maybe help them avoid making a critical mistake in their life. And for me, it's just the personal reward of being able to help somebody else. And I guess I never really thought about that in terms of my mentors got that same satisfaction out of being able to pass on their knowledge and be able to help somebody as well. Never really thought about that. Dominik, you bring up a really good point.
Dominik Lysek:
Actually, I think when I think about it, because that is, for example now something I'm trying to give back and it doesn't work with everyone. Sometimes you have somebody where you say, "Look, this works so well." The mentor is always the one that perhaps provides more insight, but if there is no resonance between the two and there is nothing coming back, it becomes less rewarding and also I think it becomes less efficient.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
We talk a lot about mentoring on this show, and with good reason, a great mentor can propel us forward opening up pathways that we may not have considered before. The late Dr. Lois J. Zachary often referred to as the mentor's mentor, wrote extensively about the nuances of this age-old relationship. Like Dominik, she understood that the best mentor-mentee relationships are those that foster learning for both parties involved. In her book, the Mentor's Guide, Dr. Zachary explains that this type of collaborative learning can have a profound effect on both the mentor and the mentee. Mentoring is not an option for leaders. It is a professional responsibility and therefore a leadership competency. According to one study, the more mentors provided mentoring support, the more they saw themselves as leaders, gained leadership identity and the more confident they became in leading a project. If you're interested in learning more, a sample chapter from the Mentor's Guide is available for free online. We've included a link to this resource in this episode's show notes. Reflecting on his early entrepreneurial journey, Dominik believes he would approach things a little differently with hindsight.
Dominik Lysek:
If you think about it, I mean now that we had the success in the end, it makes me humble and grateful that we got to that stage because as you said before, not a lot of startups make it until then. We had honestly the luck that there was an acquirer for the company at exactly the right time, because we really were finished with all the scientific parts. And then Haley and Goli Abivardi came along. We worked with them already for a year and said, "Look, we would really like to acquire the whole company and bring it to a different level," which they've done over the last few years. And to be honest, they're doing something that I could have never done, because I'm not that person.
So sometimes my wife always said, her favorite saying was, what will it have been good for? Whenever we went through another one of those really frustrating moments, she sat me down and said, "Look, what will it have been good for?" And sometimes we picked that story up a couple of years later and said, "Yeah, in the end it turned out well," because we had many big, big failures over the years. And in the end, obviously it was all overshadowed by the success of that, but even that in the great scheme of things, and if I look at my whole life, yes, it's an important chapter. It's a chapter that I thoroughly enjoyed, but it's not the only chapter.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So let's touch on that for a moment. If you go to your LinkedIn page, you're described as an innovator, right? So what does that mean to you and how do you apply that to your work?
Dominik Lysek:
So I think innovation, I truly like new things. I like new ideas. I like people that think differently. It should be purposeful. What I could never do is doing another me-too product. I couldn't get the motivation up.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Why get out of bed in the morning to just go be average and do what everybody else is doing?
Dominik Lysek:
Exactly. And today, I'm in the lucky position that I can really choose what I want to do with my life. But that is also what drove me throughout, I think all of my career. And by the way, this is why I became a scientist, because there you do something for the first time or initially it was the scientific experiments, the discoveries. Later it became products, because perhaps for me, the purely academic world is a little bit too academic.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
You want to see that research translate to reduce the practice, maybe end up in a product that maybe makes a difference in the world.
Dominik Lysek:
Exactly. Yeah, something more tangible. An innovation for me is not... That's the difference to an invention. There are plenty of inventions out there, but not all of them make it into an innovation, which means that the market has adopted that there is a benefit for in our field, the patient and that is really what drives me.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Hey, Contrary to Ordinary listeners, I want to tell you about my company, CariFree. We offer affordable science-based solutions to common dental health concerns for the whole family. Vanish cavities for good, and welcome in a healthy smile and a great first impression. Visit CariFree.com for more details. Now, back to the show.
So the name of this podcast is Contrary to Ordinary, where I interview extraordinary people. Right. In your experience, what do you think makes an entrepreneur extraordinary? What kind of qualities and traits would you assign to that person?
Dominik Lysek:
That is a difficult question. There is certainly a certain amount of endurance, meaning that you really have to be able to push through those lower points. You have to have a vision, because I don't think you can run a startup for many years through those difficult times without having that vision initially. At least for me, purely the financials or anything. They wouldn't be motivation enough. I think behind every great man there is a great woman. So what I more want to say is there needs to be a foundation in your life that enables that. If you don't have that, I don't think you can do that, because it takes so much energy and you need to get that from somewhere.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Having an understanding partner on the home front or supportive and strong partner in your personal life while you've got all this going on in your career.
Dominik Lysek:
Yeah, absolutely. And I was in the very, very lucky position that my wife, she helped me throughout everything.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Well, I get that. I totally get that.
Dominik Lysek:
And we walked this way alone. She then started in 2016 her own foundation. We did all that.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And so you were able to be the support for her.
Dominik Lysek:
Yeah, no, absolutely. I think we worked from both sides and unfortunately she became ill. She died last year, but that partnership really managed to... We kind of helped each other build up our own ventures, and I don't think either one of us could have done it without the other.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah, I get that. And I'm sorry, Dominik.
Dominik Lysek:
The last three years has been biggest ups and down in my life, because it was such a success selling the company. Then she had the diagnosis.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So she got to be a part of the success though.
Dominik Lysek:
Oh, yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
She got to see that.
Dominik Lysek:
No, absolutely. And we still had a few years after that, but she was diagnosed with cancer about four months afterwards for the first time. And then we had another good year in between. Things came back and last year was really bad. But we shared those successes, but also we shared the journey to get to those, both for her side and I'm still a board member of the foundation, and she's been my constant support over those 10 years that we did Credentis. And to be honest, without that sparing partner at home, I think it's impossibility to do that. At least I couldn't have done it. There might be other people out there, but I couldn't have.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah, I can't imagine. I mean, in my life, the startups I've done and Dana, it's like, and her having done a startup in her previous life, so she understood everything and she has a great financial mind. So I mean, literally I had that support at home all the time, and I literally couldn't have accomplished what I've done without her as a partner. It literally couldn't be done. And so your wife's legacy is certainly in the foundation and certainly in all the work that the two of you did together and got you to where you're doing the stuff you're doing today.
Dominik Lysek:
Yeah. And we were very different. I mean, the foundation does integration of refugees in Switzerland. So practically they support them to get apprenticeship to stand in their own two feet. And normally they help or support them for about three to four years throughout really a lengthy period through their education, et cetera. So obviously something completely different from what I'm doing. And I sometimes wonder how really big my contribution is on the board because it's not my field, but it is incredibly fulfilling also to give back.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I mean, to help those refugees to get settled and reestablished and create a new life for themselves, because they need mentors and help too. I mean, I can't imagine being thrown into a foreign country of a foreign culture, maybe a new language, and then trying to build a life. I mean, I can't imagine.
Dominik Lysek:
Exactly. So they do job coaching, but not only that, they have something called a supported transition where practically with 18, they get out of... So a lot of the people that they coach are unaccompanied minors. So people that came in young age without any parents and they support them to find apartments, how to live on their own. Because to be honest, if I would've thinking of my 18-year-old self, if I wouldn't have had my parents to kick me a little bit, there is no way I would've ended up where I ended up. And these young adults, they need that kind of support in order to get a chance. And that part is incredibly rewarding.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I want to extend my heartfelt thanks to Dominik for being so open about such a recent and tragic experience in his life. Cancer unfortunately affects so many of us at some point. If you're seeking more information on cancer grief support, we've included a link to Cancercare's extensive resource page in this episode's show notes. Additionally, if you'd like to learn more about the Futuri Foundation, the organization Dominik mentioned, we've included a link to that as well.
Dominik Lysek:
I'm also more of a starter than I am a finisher. For me, it's starting something, having the idea developing that is a lot. That gives me energy, whereas the last 20% of trying to finish something and it doesn't matter what it is, it really is hard finishing up-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So you're more of the visionary side and getting it going than the minutiae and the detail and the grunt work at the tail end.
Dominik Lysek:
Oh, yes. Oh, yes.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Which is the hard work. Just the smile on your face or you enjoy the excitement of the new stuff, the new discovery and the vision and being creative.
Dominik Lysek:
Yes, absolutely.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. And getting down into the weeds and doing the grunt work to make it happen.
Dominik Lysek:
Absolutely.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So what's next for you?
Dominik Lysek:
So at the moment, PharmaTrail is really what does excite me, and I spent most of my time on that, because I also see it as a little bit of a platform. So perhaps I have to go back a little step. When we sold Credentis, one of the things that I really wanted to do is think outside. Because when you run a startup, you really have a tunnel vision, because that's what your investors expect of you, and you need to focus. And I said, "Look, I really want to see some other things as well. I want to give back, be it the foundation or be it mentoring to startups, that was really something that I wanted to do. And PharmaTrail gives me a little bit of providing that platform perhaps for startups to be a little bit more successful. It's a great team there. So I'm really enjoying doing that.
I'm an early stage CEO. I think one of the things we could have done better at Credentis is taken somebody with more of a commercial mind into the team early on. I think we did very well on the way that we struggled that, and this is why we came to those showcases instead of trying to do the big splash. But at this moment when we are still developing the product, when we're still formulating the value proposition, it's fun. And now we've just started the first trials, and that, again, is rewarding. And we've gotten the first patients into the trial that is really rewarding. So I think that ecosystem I'm excited about. Obviously what I told you, I kind of have to restructure my life a little bit, but it's a journey. Life is a journey, and I've been extraordinarily lucky, and I think I realized that.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
We take a lot of things for granted along the way, and then there are points we get reminded of how fortunate we are and the people we've had in our lives. Yeah.
Dominik Lysek:
No, absolutely. I can only 100% agree.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I totally get that. Dominik, I have so enjoyed knowing you for 13, 14 years and watching you go through all of those journeys. So I really admire and respect you. I cheer and applaud every time you have some success, because I love seeing that. And so I really enjoyed having you on the podcast today, and I hope that all of our listeners, I know that they found part of your life journey and things that will resonate for them and that they can take home. Thank you so much for doing this, Dominik.
Dominik Lysek:
Thank you, Kim, for having me. This has been a great discussion. I really, really enjoyed that.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Thank you so much, Dominik Lysek, for joining me today. And thank you for going on this inspiring journey with me. Around here we aim to inspire and create connections. We can't do it without you. If this conversation moved you, made you smile or scratched that little itch of curiosity today, please share it with the extraordinary people in your life. And if you do one thing today, let it be extraordinary. Bye for now.